Have you ever had someone stare at your cleavage? Or have you had trouble tearing your eyes away from someone’s boobs?
Join Reid Mihalko from ReidAboutSex.com and Cathy Vartuli from TheIntimacyDojo.com as they discuss The Cleavage Dilemma!
Reid: Hi, I’m Reid Mihalko from ReidAboutSex.com and this is Cathy Vartuli from TheIntimacyDojo.com. Today we’re going to talk about cleavage.
Cathy: [Laughs].
Reid: Actually, I’m bringing the camera down because I want to show off the new sex geek tank tops.
Cathy: Yeah. They’re very comfy.
Reid: Because we do have a lot of male watchers of these videos, and because of the last video that we did about arousal and shouting out to people, let’s talk about, really quickly, when you put the tank top on and we’re adjusting the camera and you were like, “Oh my goodness. That’s showing a lot of cleavage.” Let’s explain to our listeners why you would say that to yourself and make a note of that. As a woman walking around in culture, illuminate the cleavage dilemma.
Cathy: Well, I’m pretty open minded about how much people show. Part of it is I’ve been brought up in a culture where you’re considered slutty if too much shows. A lot of women are always evaluating, I want to be sexy but not slutty. There’s a very fine line between that, like where am I on that spectrum. Also, because I love having conversations with people, I really prefer having conversations with people that are looking here rather than …
Reid: Now, just as a dude, and I would like to think of myself as somewhat evolved, while I notice cleavage and sometimes want to look or sometimes just catch myself looking without really understanding why I’m looking. I’m like, “Oh my God, I’m doing it again.” I have trained myself to look at somebodies eyes, but I think I came at it more from trying to connect with people because I create a better connection, men and women, and that helped me not forget about cleavage but I trained myself not to really break eye contact regardless of what’s going on.
Cathy: So, if it was already lower you would be okay?
Reid: I think I’ve trained myself to look people in the eyes because it’s better to connect not as a means of avoiding cleavage, however, because I don’t stare at people’s boobs women have a different reaction to me. There was this unintentional benefit.
Cathy: Yeah.
Reid: It’s all really to say like come on, really? It’s not the 1800s. Do you still get men staring at your boobs and literally having a conversation with you like this?
Cathy: I’ve had 15-minute conversations with people like that.
Reid: How is that even possible? Really? I’m so sorry. On behalf of penis owners all over the planet I apologize. I actually don’t understand that, and I think there are a lot of really sweet men out there who also don’t get that’s the experience.
Cathy: I think our primitive brain is wired to notice certain things and cleavage is a sign that there’s a fertile woman nearby.
Reid: I don’t know that I actually believe in that. I understand the opinion, and maybe Christopher Ryan, we could all argue about this.
Cathy: Yeah.
Reid: I’m not saying that it’s not my primitive brain that’s trying to get me to look at your boobs, but I would like to argue that too, but that’s another video.
Cathy: I think some people aren’t even aware they’re doing it or they’re actually so much thinking, “Don’t look at her boobs, don’t look at her boobs,” that they’re just …
Reid: Yeah. I went through that phase of oh my god how do I do this right? How do I do this right? Don’t screw it up. Don’t screw it up. Ah, I screwed it up.
Cathy: Yeah. I’ve gotten comfortable enough, not necessarily at work with everybody, but with some people I’d be like, “Up here.”
Reid: You actually say that?
Cathy: Yeah.
Reid: How do they react?
Cathy: Some of them get really blushed. Some of them will giggle. Some of them are just like, “Ups, sorry.” It’s not about shaming someone it’s just like I don’t feel we’re really connected talking to the top of your head and after a little while it starts getting like I should go change whereas it’s just you know I’m walking around uncomfortable. I want to be able to be comfortable walking through the world.
Reid: I don’t have a problem with people dressing slutty at all, whatever that means for them, but how do you navigate? What would be your advice for women and dealing with those concerns for themselves?
Cathy: I think that there’s going to be some people out there that we’re going to run into it sometimes where people are just staring out our bodies. It feels a little objectifying to me and I’m probably not going to spend a ton of time with people that are doing that. If it’s someone that I value I’ll talk to them. I’ll say, “Hey listen. I need to talk to you about something. I’m glad you appreciate my body, but it occurs to me that you’re staring at my boobs and not connecting with me as a whole being.”
So just sharing what I’m feeling with people I feel comfortable doing that with and if it’s someone I just have met or don’t like in general then I’m not going to spend a lot of time with them. For guys out there that want to connect with women and I hear this complaint a lot that they don’t know how to connect with women. They’re not getting the connections that they want, the dating or whatever. Notice your body language. Just start paying more attention to where your eyes are going and be more aware of what might make women uncomfortable.
Reid: Yeah. I’ve done this before. You have to be really true and honest about this. When I’m talking to somebody and whatever..like their body or whatever and I can’t not look. It’s not like I’m powerless. It’s like I’m being distracted. Whatever is happening I’m being distracted in my head right now by what’s going on.
Similar to you and I having a conversation and there’s something going on behind you and I can’t pay attention to you. Cop to it. Be like, “Okay, I’m actually trying to have a conversation with you. I’m being distracted by literally whatever you’re wearing or the cleavage of your boobs. I know this sounds weird, can I just take you in for a moment in hopes that I can then focus and be with you and pay attention?”
Cathy: Owning it, saying it out loud can be powerful.
Reid: Being really respectful and polite about it. Like don’t be like, “May I take you in?” and then like, “So I can then focus …”
Cathy: Wait for a yes or no.
Reid: “… on you and the conversation. Would that be okay?” Don’t do it that way.
Cathy: Wait until they say yes or not.
Reid: Be like listen, “I’m being distracted by your shirt. “ This actually is real. I’ve met people who have something printed on their shirt. It’s like three lines long.
Cathy: You try to read it …
Reid: You try to read it surreptitiously or they have a tattoo.
Cathy: Yeah.
Reid: It’s like, “Hey, do you mind if I read your shirt because I can’t take it all in at once and I realize it’s printed right across your boobs?” Or, “Can I just stare at your tattoo for a second because I want to look at it.” As a guy doing that for women I’ve noticed that there’s a much different reaction than me just trying to stare at your boobs.
Cathy: Yeah, at that point it’s kind of flattering and you kind of enjoy the attention and it’s not the creepy kind of trying to get it …
Reid: Okay. So this is a complex video because we’re talking about a lot of stuff. I thought with you wearing the shirt it was a good idea to have it. Leave your comments and your thoughts about this stuff.
Cathy: Yeah.
Reid: We want to hear from you.
Cathy: Any solutions you have, what’s worked for you.
Reid: Yeah. Or even the challenges that you run into to.
Cathy: Yeah. Thank you.
Reid: Bye.